New project/new sight

[chicago]

Reply, you mean like these charts (make sure you use the first strike one):

www.techpb.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=95919

[chicago]

or like these which were done with the 0.683 rifled barrel by the same dude, UV_Halo:

"I started shooting First Strike Rounds with the T9.0, and the LAPCO .690 barrel. Once I got it tuned and feeding properly, It was an excellent performer, with a very high consistency (perceived +/- 1FPS) , and I dubbed it
images56.fotki.com/v714/photos/1/363331/8808428/DSC00042-vi.jpg.

I only upgraded to the 9.1 for the new ASA, and ultimately the Rifled Barrel.

With the 9.1, I instantly upgraded to the Rifled Barrel (LAPCO manufactured, Tiberius Sold) and I faced some serious issues. The first major problems I faced were Barrel Jams and Velocity Consistency. I sent the gun into Tiberius Arms for them to check out. The found that the o-ring (factory supplied) between the body and the ASA was of the wrong durometer (hardness), resulting in it getting squished and restricting the air path. They returned the gun to me, and I still had problems but, they were slightly reduced. I later found the barrel jam problem to be the result of heavy use (100+ shots) between barrel cleanings. Once I got past that, I dubbed

Totmacher 9.1SD"]http://images12.fotki.com/v155/photos/1/363331/9780945/DSC00150Medium-vi.jpg"]Totmacher 9.1SD

and I started using the marker regularly (to include Living Legends 4).

However, one problem always remained- Velocity consistency. This gun has never felt to be anywhere near the consistency of my 9.0. I've had the suspicion for awhile now that the cause of the inconsistency was the gun's reg. The T9x regs are 'un-balanced' meaning that a rise in the input pressure will result in a rise in the output pressure. When it comes to unbalanced regs, better regs have a better ratio. For example, Palmer's regs are claimed to have a 72:1 (input-output) ratio so, it would take a 72 PSI change on the input to register a 1 PSI change on the output. Regs also often have an optimal adjustment range (# of turns) and if you adjust outside of this range (i.e. all the way in, or out), you begin to see output inconsistency.

When you switch to the Rifled Barrel, you have to increase the output of the reg usually by two or more full turns, to get your velocity back up. I suspect that this adjustment puts the reg out of it's optimal adjustment range, leading to a decrease in consistency. To confirm this, I also tested a Ninja 45ci tank with an SHP reg. The higher input pressure to the gun means I don't need to have the gun's reg turned as high so, it should be closer to it's optimal adjustment range.

That's all the theory behind the test, now let's get down to it. The test setup:

Tiberius T9.1 with:

• Polished "firing pin/bolt"
  
• Ported ASA/Body oring (increased flow between ASA and body)
  

Air Systems Used

• Ninja 45ci (standard- 850PSI)
  
• Ninja 45ci SHP (~1100PSI)
  

Barrels Tested (each was cleaned prior to each test)

• LAPCO STR8Shot First Strike Ready T8.1/T9.1 - 16" .690
  
• Tiberius Arms (LAPCO) 9.1 FSR 14" Rifled Barrel - 0.683
  

Chrono used: Custom Chrono Inc. xradarusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/x-radar1-172x300.jpg

My Lovely Assistant (Girlfriend) and I would chrono the gun into the 270s and then, I'd fire a shot, she'd write down the FPS for a 20 shot string. We did this all within the span of an hour (10-11 am) and there no significant changes in the weather. We shot the following configurations:

• T9.1 with .690 Barrel and Ninja 45ci (standard)
  
• T9.1 with Rifled .683 Barrel and Ninja 45ci
  
• T9.1 with Rifled .683 Barrel and Ninja 45ci SHP
  

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmghDw5dpOtOdGlwbExnZ1puZjRLTGJLYjk5SnpQUmc&hl=en_US

My Findings:

• T9.1 with .690 Barrel and Ninja 45ci (standard) FPS Standard Deviation: 4.68
  
• T9.1 with Rifled .683 Barrel and Ninja 45ci FPS Standard Deviation:12.72
  
• T9.1 with Rifled .683 Barrel and Ninja 45ci SHP FPS Standard Deviation: 8.36
  

In these numbers, The Standard Deviation represents how consistent the configuration is. For example, the T9.1 with the .690 LAPCO barrel, could be stated as being +/- 4.68 FPS for 68% of the times it was shot. Therefore a lower number is better.

The gun is clearly less consistent when using the rifled barrel. The decrease in the rifled barrel's SD while using the higher output SHP seems to indicate that the problem does in fact exist in the gun's regulator. Further testing with an even higher output tank reg would confirm this.

Now, maybe those numbers don't quite speak to you. Well, let's see what these SD's mean in regards to trajectories:

In the following graphs, The blue line indicates the perfect .280 FPS trajectory. The red line shows the upper edge of where 68% of your shots will fall while the Grey line shows lower edge. Keep in mind that this is only the 'majority' of your shots. To get a rough idea of where all of your shots will spread to, double the widths of the tracks. These tracks continue to get wider, at the same rate all the way out to the maximum range.

T9.1 with .690 Barrel and Ninja 45ci (standard)


T9.1 with Rifled .683 Barrel and Ninja 45ci


T9.1 with Rifled .683 Barrel and Ninja 45ci SHP


So, with the rifled barrel, and my regular output Ninja tank, firing at a target 50yds away, I could see my first shot fall 10" low, and then I compensate by aiming 10" higher, only to have my shot go over the target by 20". In real world situations, I have had this happen.

Comments, Questions?"

Sorry I can't get some of the images to show CAUSE THE MODS HAVE BLOCKED MY USE of image tags.

[liam]

That is some awesome testing you have done there chicago! Never knew you where a paintball scientists

As you seem to know allot about the T9.1, can you tell me which Lapco str8shot 16" barrel would you recommend for normal paintballs only. The .686 or the .690? I was going to go for the .690 but after watching a video on youtube about paintballs being smaller these days I am now thinking I should go for the .686

[chicago]

To be honest I have not shot a regular paintball in over 5 years and so I'm not familiar at all as to which Lapco would be better for you. The bore size of a paintball is dependent on the paint you use. Underboring (using a bore size smaller than the paintball) seems to be popular these days. This should start a heated debate. Let's see,

Finally, I wish I could take credit for those graphs. But they are from UV_Halo. Don't know if he is a member here and since tomorrow is the United States Independence day, I'm too lazy (or had too much already) to check for you.

I'm more of a tester with many, many too many years of experience.

[Allu]

That would be it, thx a million, ill get back once I'v thought it over and tested a bit.

[Wolfen]

Too many posts to answer now...


First of all YES from my experience it's "easier" and for the most part faster to aim with a 1 x reddot or holographic sight (often referred to as Reflex sights though not actually completely accurately so). However i feel that it's highly beneficial to use a magnified scope if you intend to take shots further away then 40m, this because at that distance you'll have problems seeing your FS which makes it harder to adjust your aim correctly IF you miss. Also further away the magnification helps you to properly aim right. So in short, my opinion is that a Red-dot, holographic sight without magnification is a great idea at shorter ranges due to the field of view (easier to find your target in your sight) and because it's easier to use it with both eyes open (+ not as important to look straight into the sight). At ranges +40 m it becomes more beneficial to use a magnified sight.

ALLU as you well know most shots i take i "feel" will hit even before i pull the trigger. i think the reason for this is simply that i trust my marker setup, my own shooting skills, that the sight/scope is properly dialed in, that all adjustments is right and i really only shoot when i feel comfortable that i will hit (i.e i don't shoot at 50/50 situations). With the Accuracy that you can get out of the First strikes and tiberius markers it really ain't that odd to feel sure of shots.

Lastly LIAM, When you shoot normal paintballs it is like Chicago says very much upto the paint you shoot. if the paint you use is or is smaller then .686 then go with the .686 barrel. If it's bigger then that then go with the .690. Not really a huge difference but you'll see some differences in efficiency and possibly accuracy (depending on quality of paint and consistency of your gas/hpa)

[chicago]

Liam, I'd like to add one thing to what wolfen said. You don't need fancy guages, all you need to do is drop a paintball in your barrel. If it rolls thru, you are overbored; if it doesn't roll thru, you are underbored. As far as underbored, if you can then blow the paint thru, you have a pretty good match; if you can't blow it thru at all, the barrel is probably too tight.

Finally paintballs are random; that is, even within the bunch you got, there are differences in size. And, as the day goes on, the paintballs you have with you will change size. This is true.

[liam]

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I am just going to get both the bore sizes as the paint my local site uses is never a consistent size.

[chicago]

Just so you know, there are "bore kits" out there that allow you to change bore size without changing your barrel.

[liam]

Which barrel is available for the t9.1 with interchangeable bore sizes? Is it the flasc?

[chicago]

Yes, and their barrels aren't as expensive as the Lapco. Not saying that Lapco doesn't have a good barrel. And their rifled barrels are great. I've got three of them. One 14 inch and 2 eight inch. But, Lapco admits they are not for paintballs and I've never fired a paintball thru to prove them right.

However, HammerHead makes a riffled barrel that you can use either paintballs or first strikes. I believe it is a 0.688 bore. They have both 14 inch and 8 inch versions. I've got both. They are by far the best barrels on the market in my opinion. Warning: the 14 inch is less than 14 inches which means if you have the front shroud on your T9.1 it might not fit.

But, in all my tests, Tiberius, Lapco, Flasc, and Hammerhead; HammerHead came out on top (which surprised me, I thought it was going to be the rifled lapcos). Oh, I now run Hammerheads (I used to run Flasc) so if you want to start out with the best and not spend money on other barrels that won't make you happy and that you can shoot both paintballs and first strikes and are efficient and consistent, you should try to get your hand on a HH.

Oh, one more thing, if you look for the 8 inch lapcos on line cause you are enamered with their ads and reputation, you won't find them yet. Lapco made only 50. You have to call to order them special.

[liam]

Thanks chicago. Did some research on the barrels you mentioned. I really like the way the Hammer Head is made. Especially the reverse porting for equalising the pressure as the paintball leaves the barrel.

But I am after a longer barrel so have decided to go with the lapco str8shot which I am going to fire normal paint through and maybe the odd first strike. I imagine a smooth bore would be easier to clean than a rifled barrel as well which will be handy for mid game breaks.

I think the ads got to me

[chicago]

I'm sure you will like it. There are a lot of people who swear by them.

[chicago]

Yes, I know that was a double entendre. But, liam, here's all you need to know when you are playing! This should be your mind set and how you feel (with your trusty new lapco barrel in hand):

[liam]

Your rite there chicago! That will be me all over

[Allu]

Good point chicago, with the right attitude even a kitten can kill

[archorn]

Stumbled across this wile reading about CCM's sniper. hhasports.com/products/crossbow.htm
Is similar to the hawke scope in that you can change it according to fps (you change the strip with numbers on) and is a possible replacement for the tiberius APR. Just thought i should mention it since others might find it interesting and since i don't have the time/money to buy this, experiment and post my findings right now.

[chicago]

I looked into that. It looked very interesting and added a greater distant. I agree it would replace the Tiberius APR with an accurate distance scale. But, when you combine it with the cost of a scope and then realize that you don't have an range estimator (unless you get a scope with range estimating capabilities), then you've spent equal to or more than the Hawke XB30.

But, it is not as simple as that. I'm not ignoring your selection. It's a trade off and personal taste. I worried about that rail clearing the Tiberius body and its just something else for a paintball to hit. But, if you already got a scope you like, it's probably not a bad way to go and it adds more distance to the shot than the Hawke XB30 (up to 180 feet - the "wheel" 240 feet ). Pretty impressive striking distance.

I'd say I'd contact Hawke to see if they'd let me test one. But, they haven't been very friendly and I did send that piece of **** 3D red dot crossbow scope back to them and didn't mince my words either. So, there's a slim chance they'd send me one for free or at cost.

[DJmatt123]

I just ordered the Hawke 1.5-5x32 sr crossbow scope. It was only $132 shipped and it is also adjustable for fps and has marks for 20-100 yards which sounds perfect to me. It seems to be almost better than the xb30....any thoughts on why it wouldn't be that I've overlooked?

Here's the link to it: www.hawkeoptics.com/crossbow-scopes/crossbow-15-5x32-sr.html

[chicago]

looks great. I'm sure it will work great for you. 132 shipped excellent. I think it is or at least sounds better than my XB30 (although, I'll never give her up - you'll probably feel the same.) Good hunting these things are awesome.

Keep us updated.