2013 Milsig Paradigm Pro

[nessy]

Did some more shooting and testing today. Took it out to a local field and played a few quick games. I have pictures and a full write up coming with results. I took the Para Pro out to 80 yards, and was rather surprised at what I saw. I will post more after I clean up and get some food in me.

On a side note, during play at the local field today, they played Protect the President. The guy who was playing the president talked a little smack to me before the game started, since I was playing on the side of the snipers tasked to take him out. Nothing speaks louder than a mask shot at 72 yards. (and yes, I lasered him with a range finder prior to firing. Took two shots. First was high and made him duck. I made a quick adjustment, and when he popped back up, I got him right in the mask. ^_^)

[chicago]

Awesome dude. You are the man. I had a US Marshall on a team I used to play with who always said "as long as you get him by the second shot it counts in our book!"



80 yards is some impressive shooting...not questioning it all all just trying to give some praise where praise is due!

[nessy]

Alright, time for the write up.

So, yesterday, I headed out to a small local field nearby to chrono the Para Pro in after its cleaning to make sure I was where I wanted to be. I made a few adjustments, and I got it to fire ten shots at 283 +/- 2fps. After having everyone at the field ask me all kinds of questions concerning the markers and telling me how awesome they looked (I took my modded TM7 out there as well), the refs approached me and asked me to lead up a sniper team for the Protect the President game they were gonna play. I got 6 guys and we all spread out across the woods. I won't go into too much detail, because I want to get to the meat of my write up, but its was 7 on 35+ and we took out over half of them prior to taking out the president. It was pretty fun and it was a blast having people's jaws drop looking at and handling the Para Pro. Everyone was pretty intimidated. lol.

On to the rest. After playing around a bit, I headed off to the road I shot at last time with full air and 115 FSRs at my disposal. My roommate came along with me and played as my spotter to help me see the target.

To start, I got my .686 back from rockstartactical.com. I replaced the Marksman barrel with my HH Bangstixx barrel and the Flasc Suppressor. Everything else was as same as last time. The weather was partly cloudy. Temp was around 58, and there was very little wind (maybe 3-5 mph, and that's when it picked up.)


Zeroing in at 20 yards

I took 5 shots for the zero to make sure my scope hadn't changed. This is what I got.

I didn't have to make many adjustments. It looked pretty good to me. lol.

I then took it out to 40 yards. I fired 9 rounds at the target. (I was running low on FSRs, so I loaded the magazines less than full to shoot more targets with the TM7 later) Here are the results from the 40 yard shooting.


3 rounds were right on top of each other. All others were still within a 6"x7" grouping. A lot better grouping at 40 yards than with the Marksman barrel.

I then backed it out to 60 yards. This is where my roommate helped out a lot. He called the shots as they hit. Low, high, left, right. It was great and a huge help. He even took some photos of me while I shot so that I could share them with you. ^_^


Adjusting the HHA for 60 yards.


Shooting the 60 yard group.


9 rounds at 60 yards. One went low (the first shot) because I got a little jerky with the trigger pull. the rest were pretty much on target. Not a bad grouping and a lot better than with the stock Marksman barrel.

The final grouping of the day was at 80 yards. It took me some time to get the HHA set and to figure out which reticule to use to hit the target consistently. I honestly will consider getting the Killjoy APR to put underneath the HHA, because I strongly believe that anything outside of 70 yards will require more adjustment to effectively use the reticules properly on the scope. It will probably be my next purchase for both the Para Pro and the SAR 12 when it gets in. It is not needed from 60 yards and in, but once you get to 70+ yards, the extra elevation is definitely needed.


Here is the final group of the day. 2 mags at 6 rounds each, total of 12 shots on target. 10 of 12 were 12"x12" and the two that missed were just barely in the red.

I have had long discussions with White Feather about rifled vs. smooth bore and which one would give the most consistent accuracy. I had toyed with getting a CP 16" smooth bore with .685 bore to do some testing with it, but after seeing the groupings I managed with the HH rifled barrel, I think that this barrel will be staying on my marker for the foreseeable future. I love the groupings it gave me, and unless I have total confidence that a smooth bore will give me better results, I think that this barrel combination will be on this marker for a long time. ^_^

[trinity]

Nessy,

Great review. That's the kind of stuff that makes this forum so valuable to shooters.

Your results mirror my own. That includes getting an APR2 under the HHA. The APR gains elevation in huge chunks unlike the controlled way that the HHA does it. Using the APR simply means that you have to raise it by using the elevation lines at the back of the APR and see how much extra range you are picking up with each change in height. It's a slow, cumbersome process but it is the only way to get repeatable accuracy at ranges longer than about 70 yards.

I have also shot first strikes through lots and lots of smooth bore barrels. Some were okay and some were awful. None of them held a candle to the rifled Hammerheads.

Your barrel discussion though is timely. Increasingly, I have become convinced that improvements in barrel technology will be the next way to step up accuracy with first strikes. If you think about it, the Hammerhead rifling working so well with first strikes was pure chance. After all, the rifling in those barrels has been around for a very long time and was originally made to shoot round paint. They didn't and don't make a Hammerhead barrel with rifling and bore size specifically designed for optimum performance with first strikes.

I am starting to see and talk to folks who are beginning to experiment with rifling of different types and seeing some success. Carmatech is selling it's 20" rifled barrel which raises the question of whether the old barrel-length rule that said that somewhere between 12" - 14" was the ideal size for a barrel still applies. Did Carmatech actually do some comparison testing of various barrel lengths or was the idea of having a long "sniper barrel" purely for looks? They aren't saying. I have tested it and I think that size does matter. Your 16" Hammerhead is evidence of that I think. If you tested that 16" barrel against a 14" Hammerhead I believe you would find that while the shorter barrel would shoot very well, the groups would be a tiny bit bigger.

Of course all the discussion above becomes moot if Tiberius doesn't get its quality-control process for the first strikes under control.

[chicago]

I have both the 14 and the 16 inch (was hoping Nessy had decided to be more CQG and send me his 20). Anyway, temperatures are rising here (up to 32 today). So, I'm going to be out there very soon now.

Both your experiences minimich my test results from last year. Right now I'm sticking with hammerhead too!

[nessy]

Chicago, I have yet to receive my SAR 12, so I do not have the 20" barrel yet. I told you I would send it to you once I was done with my tests, and I will stick to my word. Although, it will probably be White Feather who sends it to you, seeing as I will be deploying in 2 weeks and will be gone until August.

Trinity, I agree with you. I truly believe that the magic number for FSRs is .686. HH barrels are .688 throughout. If HH made a solid, one piece barrel in .686 instead of using backs, It would be much more effective. Something that White Feather mentioned to me is that the larger bore size in a rifled barrel would cause the FSR to possibly catch a part of the barrel more than another and cause it to wobble and spin, causing it to come out of the barrel squirrely (as was evident with my last test with the Marksman stock barrel, which is .691). I believe that the tighter bore of the .688 HH barrel makes the rounds more accurate, but I believe that a .686 bore would be damn near perfect. Also, I am really anxious to try out the new 1-2-1 rounds from SA. If Tiberius doesn't fix their quality control stuff on the FSRs like you said, SA may end up over taking them if their rounds perform at the same level or better than FSRs. I guess we will just have to wait and see. As for the barrels, I now firmly believe that rifled is definitely the way to go and will probably keep a HH barrel on my markers from now on. Although, I may toy with the idea of picking up another 20" barrel for the Para Pro if the results of that test prove better than with my 16" barrel. Only time will tell.

[Allu]

I'm partial also to the onepiece solution.

Stay safe!

[savage]

I have a question about the stock flip up sights. Are you able to actually use them as intended while wearing a mask? It looks as though there is some clearence but its hard to tell if it's enough. If so, are the stock sights comfortible or do you need to **** your head or tilt the gun to make it work? If not would you recommend a red-dot with riser instead?