Post by trinity on Aug 9, 2012 19:12:24 GMT -5
I have been giving this subject a bit of thought as to how you define "maximum range is important." Even defining it as the military does, "[t]he maximum distance at which a weapon may be expected to be accurate and achieve the desired effect," leaves some room for slippage.
We all know that there are some really wild claims for long, long range kills using first strikes. It's not that I am doubting the claims, it's just that I am not interested in the equivalent of a lucky hit while long balling. I am also setting this up as a a field problem. Without a mask, propped up on a shooting bench, maybe your range could be a bit higher, but I am not interested in that either. I want to know your opinion of maximum effective range of a first strike round during a scenario event under near-ideal conditions.
When I got my sniper training I had two trainers. One was retired army and the other was a retired marine. Their pretended insults about the other's branch of service were actually quite entertaining, but they also differed on the subject matter a bit. They taught us that the rule of thumb for determining any cartridge's maximum effective range (under the rule quoted above) is to divide the round's maximum range by 3 and that that will put you in the ballpark for maximum effective range.
For example, maximum range for a .308 round is 2990 yards or thereabouts. The army instructor said that the army specifies 800 yards to be the maximum effective range for the .308, while the marine instructor said that the marines believe that 900 yards is the actual maximum effective range for that cartridge.
That brings me to the first strike round. Ballistic charts show that the first strike round has a maximum range of about 180 yards. Applying the rule of thumb to that gives us a maximum effective range of about 60 yards. I tend to think that maybe maximum effective range is a bit more than that.
In an attempt to turn the military definition of maximum effective range into something less mushy and make it into something that we can actually quantify let me, just for the sake of argument's sake, start by by laying out an imaginary scenario and then, within that framework, pose the maximum effective range question.
If you were given the mission of stalking the opposing team's HQ with the goal of shooting their general when he stepped out of their HQ building, and if you also knew that because you were going to be far behind their lines and surrounded by enemy players that you would get only one shot before you were swarmed, what would be the farthest distance that you want to take that shot while still maintaining a high level of confidence that you would hit the target?
Let's eliminate as many of the variables as possible because I understand that they work to reduce maximum effective range. Let's stipulate that there is very little wind to speak of (blowing across your target), that your target will present as a clear, full-body shot, and that he will not be moving when you take the shot. You will also have time to shoot. We can argue about how those variables impact the equation later. I am just trying to narrow the discussion a bit.
Let's also say that the stalk will require two hours to complete. On top of that you will have whatever waiting time is required before the general actually steps outside where a shot is possible. Making the shot will be a walk-off win for your team. Missing the shot results in two wasted hours of sweaty, dirty, low crawling and being immediately shot by the other team. Let's also stipulate that, like any good sniper, you scouted the other team's HQ prior to the start of the game and you know the terrain including how close you can get to the target before you have to shoot.
Your general doesn't want to waste a sniper for two + hours of game time if you're going to crawl that whole distance and then miss the shot. He, point-blank, wants to know whether, if he sends you on this mission, you have a high degree of confidence that you will take out that team's general. If not, he wants you to do something else of importance.
I hate it when people pose a hypothetical on forums but then don't answer their own question. So here goes. For me 60 yards is somewhere in the area of 99%. I am extremely confident of hitting a man-size target at that distance. At 70 yards my confidence drops to about 85%. I know that's only ten yards but the drop in round speed is substantial. My answer to this question is 80 yards. I feel that at 80 yards, under the conditions I have laid out, I have about 70-75% chance at hitting that target. Just to flesh things out a bit more, I feel that at 90 yards, my odds drop to 55-60%. At 100 yards it is no more than a 50/50 proposition for me to hit the target on any given shot.
There is no wrong answer here. You're distance may be more or less than mine.
We all know that there are some really wild claims for long, long range kills using first strikes. It's not that I am doubting the claims, it's just that I am not interested in the equivalent of a lucky hit while long balling. I am also setting this up as a a field problem. Without a mask, propped up on a shooting bench, maybe your range could be a bit higher, but I am not interested in that either. I want to know your opinion of maximum effective range of a first strike round during a scenario event under near-ideal conditions.
When I got my sniper training I had two trainers. One was retired army and the other was a retired marine. Their pretended insults about the other's branch of service were actually quite entertaining, but they also differed on the subject matter a bit. They taught us that the rule of thumb for determining any cartridge's maximum effective range (under the rule quoted above) is to divide the round's maximum range by 3 and that that will put you in the ballpark for maximum effective range.
For example, maximum range for a .308 round is 2990 yards or thereabouts. The army instructor said that the army specifies 800 yards to be the maximum effective range for the .308, while the marine instructor said that the marines believe that 900 yards is the actual maximum effective range for that cartridge.
That brings me to the first strike round. Ballistic charts show that the first strike round has a maximum range of about 180 yards. Applying the rule of thumb to that gives us a maximum effective range of about 60 yards. I tend to think that maybe maximum effective range is a bit more than that.
In an attempt to turn the military definition of maximum effective range into something less mushy and make it into something that we can actually quantify let me, just for the sake of argument's sake, start by by laying out an imaginary scenario and then, within that framework, pose the maximum effective range question.
If you were given the mission of stalking the opposing team's HQ with the goal of shooting their general when he stepped out of their HQ building, and if you also knew that because you were going to be far behind their lines and surrounded by enemy players that you would get only one shot before you were swarmed, what would be the farthest distance that you want to take that shot while still maintaining a high level of confidence that you would hit the target?
Let's eliminate as many of the variables as possible because I understand that they work to reduce maximum effective range. Let's stipulate that there is very little wind to speak of (blowing across your target), that your target will present as a clear, full-body shot, and that he will not be moving when you take the shot. You will also have time to shoot. We can argue about how those variables impact the equation later. I am just trying to narrow the discussion a bit.
Let's also say that the stalk will require two hours to complete. On top of that you will have whatever waiting time is required before the general actually steps outside where a shot is possible. Making the shot will be a walk-off win for your team. Missing the shot results in two wasted hours of sweaty, dirty, low crawling and being immediately shot by the other team. Let's also stipulate that, like any good sniper, you scouted the other team's HQ prior to the start of the game and you know the terrain including how close you can get to the target before you have to shoot.
Your general doesn't want to waste a sniper for two + hours of game time if you're going to crawl that whole distance and then miss the shot. He, point-blank, wants to know whether, if he sends you on this mission, you have a high degree of confidence that you will take out that team's general. If not, he wants you to do something else of importance.
I hate it when people pose a hypothetical on forums but then don't answer their own question. So here goes. For me 60 yards is somewhere in the area of 99%. I am extremely confident of hitting a man-size target at that distance. At 70 yards my confidence drops to about 85%. I know that's only ten yards but the drop in round speed is substantial. My answer to this question is 80 yards. I feel that at 80 yards, under the conditions I have laid out, I have about 70-75% chance at hitting that target. Just to flesh things out a bit more, I feel that at 90 yards, my odds drop to 55-60%. At 100 yards it is no more than a 50/50 proposition for me to hit the target on any given shot.
There is no wrong answer here. You're distance may be more or less than mine.
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