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Post by Admin on Jul 14, 2011 18:54:57 GMT -5
So I keep running into discussions both in forums and on the field. It seems like there's a growing number of people who think first strikes are unfair in the realm of paintball and should be removed because of it. Obviously you all know my stance on it and I suspect everyone here is of similar mind. That being said I think it's a great place to discuss the voracity of these claims.
What is said specifically is that because first strikes fly further and with more accuracy than a paintball they ruin the balance of the game. Many people cite the use of flatline barrels or apex tips, however this argument is always countered by saying that a paintball is still being shot.
People that support the first strike round always point out their cost and low volume fired at a time as significant drawbacks to using the round and as such; make it fair to use.
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Post by chicago on Jul 14, 2011 19:10:44 GMT -5
If they outlaw First Strikes there are two problems. Tiberius is done for.
Two, I won't play anymore.
Why not outlaw ramping, autos, or any electronic (that's like firing ropes of paint). That's what really is unfair. Just go back to pumps if you are going to eliminate first strikes!
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Hellkeepa
Member
Half the battle is in the mind, the rest is patience.
Posts: 147
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Post by Hellkeepa on Jul 14, 2011 19:16:48 GMT -5
HELLo! Ah, the good old "but that's cheating" argument... Fond memories, fond memories. If everything that gave one an advantage over another player was unfair, and would thusly be classified as "cheating" then we'd all have to play with exactly the same marker, barrel, mask, paint and everything else. Cases in point: - Ramp-boards/E-grips and Response Triggers makes it possible to shoot more balls per second than with just a semi auto, thus greatly increasing the chance of hitting the opponent. Either via getting enough balls to cover the area of hit, or by shooting through soft cover.
- After market barrel does mainly three things. First it increases the effective range, on some markers. Secondly it helps on the consistency of where the balls land. Thirdly it can make the gun more silent, making it harder to accurately spot/detect the shooter.
- A better paint size to bore ratio gives better and more stable propulsion, thus improving consistency and possibly increasing the range. Higher quality paint ("tournament paint") is more uniform than "regular paint", and as such much more consistent.
- Thermal glass on the masks makes it much harder for it to fog up, improving ones ability to actually spot the enemy before they spot you. Same with improved venting. A mask with a bigger glass area, like the I4, gives you a much wider field of view and thus again better detection rate. Different lenses gives better performance in different situations, making it easier (or rather less hard) to see. Plus a mask that fits snugly to the face will not interfere as much with aiming.
- Stocks help keep the gun stable, and improves the aiming a great deal.
- HPA is far more consistent over CO2, especially when firing rapidly
And I could go on and on and on, but I won't bore you. :-P My main point is that: Yes, First Strike does give you an advantage. Like many, many things. However, it also gives some disadvantages, of which a few have been listed above. It's a trade off, like everything. Since everyone is allowed to use their own equipment as long as it conforms to safety standards, and First Strike rounds are readily available for everyone, I cannot for the life of me see how it's more cheating than a better barrel, mask, or whatnot. After all, if they don't like the advantage it gives someone else they have three choices: - Either shut up and play.
- Shut up and walk away.
- Buy FSR-capable equipment themselves, and gain the exact same advantages and disadvantages.
Ban FSR for giving and "unfair" advantage, then you'd sure be ready to ban everything else that gives an "unfair" advantage. And, after all, who gets to decide what's unfair and what's not? PS: Yes, this is a discussion I've had many a time. Though, mostly over scripting in FPS games like Counter-Strike. Some people just don't want to learn, and deem everything that they cannot be arsed to look into as "unfair" and thus "cheating". Best way to stop them, is to give them some crap gear and tell them that if they use anything else but what you gave them they're "cheating". *Evil grin* Happy snipin'! |
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Post by coralnerd on Jul 14, 2011 20:08:02 GMT -5
I don't see how it's cheating. They spent a few hundred $ to shoot 25 balls a second, we spend a few hundred $ to shoot 400 ft. Second, do real snipers "cheat" when they use a 50 cal???
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Post by majorghost on Jul 14, 2011 20:27:39 GMT -5
All first strike markers shoot less rounds (per load) than any hopper fed marker.
Simply put, is this not the equalizer?
Now, if they decided to make a 200 round first strike loading device on the market, I will cry bloody murder .... well, no but that might be considered unfair.
I am getting into the FS for the first time ... I know, I have been a sniper for all my paintball career. However, what first strike does is kill the argument about "no such thing as snipers in paintball" and maybe this is pissing off people.
Again, this argument will never go away...
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Post by skullcandy1993 on Jul 15, 2011 0:03:30 GMT -5
Now, if they decided to make a 200 round first strike loading device on the market, I will cry bloody murder .... well, no but that might be considered unfair. I would too, and then I would save my pennies to buy one  In response to the OP...I try to avoid those arguments because a lot of people who think that way are ignorant about anything that has to do with FSR other than they got taken out by one and didn't like it. |
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Post by chicago on Jul 15, 2011 15:41:26 GMT -5
In addition, any one who thinks we have an unfair advantage using First Strikes, given them a t8.1 with two mags, no give then four, send them up the middle (with suppressing fire of course let's be fair). Of course, to be fair also equip the other team with ramping semi and autos with huge hoppers. I want to hear after that game who has the clear "advantage."
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Hellkeepa
Member
Half the battle is in the mind, the rest is patience.
Posts: 147
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Post by Hellkeepa on Jul 15, 2011 17:23:39 GMT -5
HELLo!
Hehe. I like the way you think, Chicago! *Evil grin*
Happy snipin'!
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Post by Admin on Jul 16, 2011 10:42:36 GMT -5
It's an excellent point actually, Chicago. In a paintball world 20 years ago where everyone was using pumps I may have said first strikes were unbalancing to the game. In this day and age that argument doesn't hold. As far as I'm concerned they should get rid of people shooting ropes regardless of the first strike argument.
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Post by Wolfen on Jul 17, 2011 5:41:31 GMT -5
First strikes is in NO way cheating... anyone can use them if they want. People just ***** because they can't handle the style of play you need when you run FS, or pistol, or any limited ammo for that matter.
Also do take into consideration the complete lack of any personal skill required to use ramp and put enough paint between you and your target that he's no longer visible. Even though FS fly straight it does take quite abit of shooting skill to first shoot in your sight, then learn the elevation needed for any specific distance, Not to mention the actual shot. Since the FS really do fly very accurately even a small error will make you miss.
Bottom line is if anyone actually ***** about FS, change markers with them just for one round and they'll shut the hell up after that
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Post by Wolfen on Jul 17, 2011 6:46:50 GMT -5
sorry about the last comment but i really loathe people that whine about something instead of trying to figure out what to do about it. If you whine about getting shot out from a "mile" away... how about you learn to drop your *** down behind a cover (even if you don't see anyone). You whine about the accuracy of FS... learn not to stick your whole body out for a whole god damn minute... If you whine that Fs hurt so much... they don't hurt any more then normal paintballs so either get yourself some protective gear or get out of paintball coz it's part of the game
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Hellkeepa
Member
Half the battle is in the mind, the rest is patience.
Posts: 147
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Post by Hellkeepa on Jul 17, 2011 7:52:06 GMT -5
HELLo!
*Pats Wolfen*
I know how you feel, trust me. Far too well. :-P
Also for the "hurts too much" argument, so far I've only had one comment that the FS hurt more than regular paintballs. The rest have commented that it actually hurt less, and one guy didn't even notice that I hit him.
So I guess that myths' a bust, eh? ;D
Happy snipin'!
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Post by coralnerd on Jul 17, 2011 10:49:23 GMT -5
One of my friends says that fs hurt as much as paint balls, but for a longer distance. I've never been hit by one myself since one else hear uses them, not even Godz_hate From ton forum.
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Post by Soldier of Fortune on Jul 17, 2011 18:16:10 GMT -5
The "hurts too much" argument is simple. If your good enough to not get hit then it wont matter either way. Plain and simple.
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Hellkeepa
Member
Half the battle is in the mind, the rest is patience.
Posts: 147
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Post by Hellkeepa on Jul 17, 2011 19:46:07 GMT -5
HELLo!
Just a little update on the "FS hurts more" argument....
Today I managed to sneak up on two players, from the other side of some evergreens. Just as I was about to round the corner to "bang" them, one of them decided to run straight past me. Due to the suddenness of this event, and the fact that I know the player in question tends to disagree a bit when he's getting "banged", I squeezed off a round by reflex.
Hit him in the mask, and then took the three steps to get a drop on the second player. Hit him right in the chest, just a few cm above his nipple. This was from a distance of about 3 meters, and the marker is chronoed to ~280 fps.
I asked that second guy afterwards if it hurt, "not at all" was the answer I got. Had it been a regular paintball, he'd have a pretty nasty bruise out of it, for sure.
So, FSR does not hurt as much as regular paintballs. And considering their harder shell I don't find that surprising. :-)
Happy snipin'!
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Post by coralnerd on Jul 17, 2011 20:08:32 GMT -5
I've only had one person ever complain about fs, and it was a new player. I got asked to be chrono, since they said my shots were to strait. I was shooting 265.
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tick
Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tick on Jul 18, 2011 22:46:41 GMT -5
people are always going to whine when they get shot close or far whiners whine, snipers snipe...batteries shoot ropes and rely on volume of paint not taking 'The" shot! I have been told I overshoot with my Phantom...it is because I shoot five and hit them five times! the batteries shoot thirty round bursts and hit me not! never been hit by a Fs as far as I know but I know they are out there...
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Post by skullcandy1993 on Jul 18, 2011 23:10:07 GMT -5
Something in paintball only becomes unfair when not everybody has access to it. If Tiberius were to come out with this 200 round first strike loading device but only gave it to me, and didn't sell it to the general public then that would be unfair. However, if anyone (with enough funds) can go to a shop and buy it...then it is fair and legal. |
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Post by Soldier of Fortune on Jul 19, 2011 18:45:36 GMT -5
I agree with Skully although I might add that people who create there own mods are also in no way cheating.
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Post by skullcandy1993 on Jul 19, 2011 21:55:14 GMT -5
I agree with Skully although I might add that people who create there own mods are also in no way cheating. I guess I have to agree with this as well seeing as I have this really bad habit of going at PB gear with power tools ;D |
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