Flasc 14 inch vs Tib Lapco 14 inch

[chicago]

As promised, here's my long awaited review on the Lapco riffled single piece 14 inch 0.683 barrel vs the Flasc. Flasc finally sent me a replacement for the defective 14 inch I got back in February I think.

2 mags of First Strike were fired out of the Tiberius/Lapco to adjust velocity to be as close to 280 fps as possible. About 10-11 rounds into firing/adjusting the Lapco broke a First Strike round. This has never happened to me before with FS (except when I've fire the 0.683 riffled) other tib and flasc barrels (except once in the defect 14in flasc), never a break in almost 2 years. Whenever I use the riffled barrel, I get a break about every 1-2 out of 10-20 rounds. This was a new case of 100 rounds to be used equally between the two barrels in my tests. So, just in setting up the velocity, I got a break.

I also wanted to use the same marker. So, into the house, downstairs I go to clean the barrel and clean the marker out.

New setup. Let's do the Flasc first in case I only get another 10-20 shots off with the Tib/Lapco rifled. Chrono ready, first shot awesome! As I thought, the flasc is possibly more accurate than the rifled. 285 was a little high but, we'll shot a second round before making adjustment. Second round, nothing out of the barrel! What. Exact same problem I had with the first 14 inch that flasc shipped me. Look in breach, FS jammed in breach just like 4 months ago.

I waited for months for a barrel that does the same thing as the first one I bought. Headed back in to clean up barrel and marker again. Got out the flasc bore kit out, 0.687 with nine inch extension (gen2 porting as well) makes this a 14 inch barrel but not one piece and not riffled.

Back outside for the third time, just to convince myself that I hadn't lost my mind. First shot, same box, same marker, different flasc barrel. 315 fps chrono at the tip of the barrel. Of course, I knew this was a more efficient barrel. No breaks in 24 shots.

Went back inside, wasn't out there to test these two barrels and wasn't looking forward to cleaning paint out of the rifled lapco again so testing done. No precision results. However, in functionality, lapco one piece won hands down against the flasc one piece.

Whats next? My plans are to run the Tiberius/Lapco 0.683 riffled in the field (woods) on my t9.1 til it breaks enough paint on me and then switch to the more reliable flasc bore kit. Also going to a pistol tournament this weekend (Saturday) at Fox River Games. Going to try to convince them to let use my MP7 (machine pistol 7) as configured. 0.687 bore with a 9 inch extension that has gen2 porting. What's cool is that I'm using a flasc fake suppressor that slides down into the nine inch extension right up to the mp7 shroud. Looks bad and is silent and efficient. I'll probably be back out there tomorrow with just the mp7 adjusting the velocity for down to 280 fps and firing just first strikes.

As far as the 14 inch one piece Flascs that have gen2 porting, don't bother. I'll contact Dave at flasc next to let him know my results (I had told him that I was going to do a write up, a comparison on the forums), and tell him he shouldn't be selling these things. They don't work unless you want to breach load each shot. Sorry, but those are the facts. I love my other flasc products but the 14 inch single barrel is a piece of (sorry ran out of room, can't type any more, wink, wink...)

In this last order, I also got another fake suppressor and an adapter (flasc to tib threading). The new suppressors have a wider back end. Allowed me to use it on the tip/lapco as well. So, that has fixed a lot of problems with the fake suppressor and, its still as quiet as ever. You paintball snipers looking for an edge, get yourself a flasc suppressor. I had a seasoned paintballer with me today, voodooaddict, he was downstream by the target. His exact words, "There was more noise coming from the sizzle of the first strike round as it flew through the air than there was from the muzzle of your gun." I know that cause, I've tried it too. My hearing isn't as good, but I've stood behind a big tree with the target on the other side and all I heard was the crack when the round struck the target.

[Wolfen]

you break FS with the rifled barrel? i've now shot a total of 250 FS through the rifled barrel (200 through my own and 50 through my dads) and so far not a single break. in fact only problem i've had so far is one jam due to the mag pushing a FS the wrong way into the breach. both guns are chronoed to the same 280-285 you have. I wonder if it's poor quality control (not like lapco...) that make some people get barrel breaks with it.

[Admin]

Great review! That's interesting about the number of breaks you're getting in the rifled barrel. I'd wonder if there's a defect.

[DJmatt123]

I haven't shot a whole lot of rounds thru my rifled barrel but I have not had any problems with breaks. Probably between 100-200 rounds.

[chicago]

Followup - emailed Dave at Flasc. He apologized about sending the same old barrel out. He said he'd send me the first 14 inch one piece barrel of the new production run. I'll repeat my tests then. My faith in Flasc has been restored.

As far as the tib/lapco rifled barrel, I don't know who to contact, Tiberius or Lapco, both names are on the barrel. Since I'd read of others who broke FS in that 0.683 barrel as well, I assumed that was their nature. But, in my memory, i've never gone more than 3 magazines without a break and that's no fun as we all know. I assumed it was cause its so tight!

[Wolfen]

I honestly don't know why some people have problems with breaks but i doubt it has anything to do with the under-bore since then all barrels should have this problem and they clearly don't. maybe it's something faulty that leaves some of the edges on the rifling sharp on some barrels (just speculating). When you get the breaks how far up the barrel does it happen? at the Back/middle/front?

[chicago]

Jun 2, 2011 10:23:15 GMT -5 Wolfen said:

I honestly don't know why some people have problems with breaks but i doubt it has anything to do with the under-bore since then all barrels should have this problem and they clearly don't. maybe it's something faulty that leaves some of the edges on the rifling sharp on some barrels (just speculating). When you get the breaks how far up the barrel does it happen? at the Back/middle/front?

I've sent an email to Tiberius and we'll see what if any response I get. Thanks for your help and suggestions.

When it works, it works great. But, if Tiberius isn't going to help, I'll eventually put it up for sale, cheap. Cause I can't get thru two games without it mucking up my marker something awful. So, to me, it isn't worth the aggravation.

[Wolfen]

I just thought of two things that might cause the breaks (if they happen at the back of the barrel). If the detents are bad this may cause the round to enter the barrel at an angle which would definitely cause it to break with the tight bore. Another thing that could cause breaks at the back of the barrel is if the breach has a sharp edge.

[chicago]

Jun 2, 2011 12:21:20 GMT -5 Wolfen said:

I just thought of two things that might cause the breaks (if they happen at the back of the barrel). If the detents are bad this may cause the round to enter the barrel at an angle which would definitely cause it to break with the tight bore. Another thing that could cause breaks at the back of the barrel is if the breach has a sharp edge.

Thanks, I'll replace the detents and check for burrs.

[chicago]

Update on Tib 0.683 riffled: I took Wolfens advise and inspected the rifled for burrs. None. However, I did remove the detents. After visual inspection, it was clear they were different shape. So, I replaced them with two detents I took out of the defective flasc 14 inch. Haven't shot it since (no air) will get some tomorrow. And report back the results. (Of course, no response from Tiberius). I'm hoping the "unmatched detents" are the problem. And, either Aryaryn or Coralnerd responded to my posting over on Tiberius forum (you know an old man can't remember things for long). Any way, one of the two of them had a good point about misshapen rounds as well. So, I'll inspect what I'm shooting tomorrow as well. Mini pistol tournament this Saturday, I and my posse are looking forward. Got approval today to use my mp7. I'll be running the flasc 0.687 with the nine extension and suppressor (covering over 5 inches of that nine). FS of course (if I don't use up another box of 100 tomorrow playing with the riffled barrel again).

[chicago]

Preliminary results: after changing the detents on my T9.1 that houses the 0.683 rifled, today I got a new ninja reg and filled up a larger tank 48 cc at 4500 I think, (my son gave me one for remote operations so I got a ninja reg so I could reduce the output pressure). Anyway, to make a long story longer, I just came in from being outside. Adjusted my mp7 (with remote) chrono'd at 277 now (with efficient flasc barrel 0.687) with FS!. Now, I loaded up the T9.1 hooked the same remote and quickly fired off 8 rounds (measured first two rounds at 282 and 280). Then I fired another magazine full of FS (guess if I'm shooting the rifled, they had to be FS). Bottom line, I haven't gotten thru two magazines without a break! This time I did. I'm very hopeful. May be it was the detents. Well, if it doesn't rain tomorrow, I'm off to the tournament with two excellent markers and FS. T9.1 rifled for woods ball sniping (includes my kiljoy adjustable rail). MP7 for town and speedball games (and backup gun in the woods). Wish me and my posse luck.

So, I've gone thru a samll box of FS (40 count). And, for those of you who are wondering...NO TIBERIUS NEVER GOT BACK TO ME ABOUT MY PROBLEMS WITH THE RIFLED BARREL. Thanks Wolfen for your suggestions, thanks everyone for their suggetions and support too,

[Wolfen]

Glad to help, hope it solved the problem because the rifled barrel is truly amazing.

[mayhem]

Detents fixing the issue would honestly be kind of incredible. I hope it works, please keep us updated.

It's too bad to hear a zero response from TA. I was once really impressed with the service I was getting from them, but when they don't have an answer (as was the case when I was originally getting breaks in mine) they just seem to shut down and not respond rather than admitting they don't know what to do.

[Mule]

Great to see that might be fixed, hearing your complaints about the breaks was one of the only things making me hesitant about the barrel

[chicago]

Jun 4, 2011 7:51:49 GMT -5 mayhem said:

Detents fixing the issue would honestly be kind of incredible. I hope it works, please keep us updated.

It's too bad to hear a zero response from TA. I was once really impressed with the service I was getting from them, but when they don't have an answer (as was the case when I was originally getting breaks in mine) they just seem to shut down and not respond rather than admitting they don't know what to do.

Could you remind me what solved your problem. And yes, I'm very disappointment in Tiberius support.

[mayhem]

I can't really say for sure honestly. I think there were a lot of factors to my issue: breaking in the marker, tension on my qloader, type of paint I was using. Not that I would expect TA to point these things out or identify them as the issue, but after an initial email response it was just a black hole with them.

I have had my barrel get stuck when detents were pushed too far in.

[chicago]

Another update: always like unbiased reporting. Tiberius, Eric, got back to me and said if I'd like, I could send them the Tib/Lapco rifled barrel and they'd look at it. So, to clarify/update my earlier reporting, Tiberius did get back to me and has offered to look at the barrel. Seems like I'm the only one having the problem. And, since I changed the detents, I haven't broken a round.

Separate issue: I took the opportunity to ask about airless mags. To paraphrase Eric, "...engineering is going in a different direction now." To me that translates into no airless mags in the near future.

[Wolfen]

It's great that it's running smoothly now

[Mule]

Jun 6, 2011 10:04:02 GMT -5 chicago said:

To paraphrase Eric, "...engineering is going in a different direction now." To me that translates into no airless mags in the near future.

doh, I wonder what that means exactly..

[chicago]

Final report: The detents (nubbins to us oldies) seems to have done the trick. I pumped both old and new First Strikes (white an blue) over 50 rounds through the riffled barrel since changing the detents. Not one single break. Before it was always within a mag or two I'd get a break. I went thru 7 mags without a break. Can't afford to do anymore testing but I feel confident taking it into a game now.

On a side note. Since I wasn't distracted by the breaks, I did notice an interesting phenom (not the marker). I slow fired at first. I double tapped. Then I emptied an entire mag as quicklyas I could. No breaks in the first three mags with different types of shooting as well. However, I wasn't counting so I'd occasionally dry fire at the end of a mag. And, this is the reason for the note. I perceived the first time little small particles (like you'd get in a break - but it wasn't a break cause there was no shell - I could tell by the sound difference and no round going down stream). So, on a lark, I dry fired at the end of the next three mags and got the same effect. I believe they are fine particles of fins (plastic scraped off the fins by the rifling) being blown out the front of the empty barrel. Any one experience this? It didn't effect my accuracy in any case all rounds were right on!