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Post by Hitman4Hire on Apr 9, 2011 11:28:29 GMT -5
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Post by coralnerd on Apr 9, 2011 11:33:00 GMT -5
They make a version of this for divers that have been out for at least 5 years.
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Post by Hitman4Hire on Apr 9, 2011 15:16:10 GMT -5
They make a version of this for divers that have been out for at least 5 years. Exactly.... we need a goggle/mask system for tactical applications. |
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Post by Allu on Apr 9, 2011 18:42:31 GMT -5
Aah the possibilities, guess one would have to learn a few programing languages to get the stuff working to ones exact specs
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Post by PzPicklez on Apr 9, 2011 18:53:35 GMT -5
Aah the possibilities, guess one would have to learn a few programing languages to get the stuff working to ones exact specs I could help in that field. |
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Post by coralnerd on Apr 9, 2011 22:14:42 GMT -5
I would like a windage gauge.
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Post by Hitman4Hire on Apr 9, 2011 23:50:06 GMT -5
Our squad uses the Garmin Rhino system as our Comms. This gives us a GPS tracking on all squad members plus our communications are encrypted via the system. If it would be possible to have that information on a HUD goggle system, that would be very cool indeed and not that much of a stretch with the current technology.
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Post by Allu on Apr 10, 2011 7:10:48 GMT -5
Damn, hope that my budget will allow for some new hardware this summer  |
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Post by mayhem on Apr 10, 2011 8:04:04 GMT -5
I've been working on a head mounted display pipe dream for some time now. Since it seems unlikely I would ever be able to bring something like this to market myself, why not discuss the idea openly. Perhaps someone out there might actually create it.
These glasses are certainly a step in the right direction. The big item is the LCD mounted inside the mask right? I've tried an external mounted one, it stunk for several reasons. Did you know you can pick up these kind of screens yourself as a hobbyist to mess around with though?
What would be some really useful abilities from a HMD:
Someone mentioned windage, yes, (local to the shooter though. I would imagine there would have to be some serious brain for it to take camera imagines and interpret it the way a human might to determine wind at target)
Target distance (Perhaps the device that calculates the distance relays the information about the item the marker is pointed at to the HMD.)
Maps (Arial view). Maps would need to be generated not via google (too many trees)
Location via GPS
Game timer
Munition count (how many have been shot, perhaps how many remain in the clip)
Calculation that determines the distance to target (or provides static data) about how high and to which side you should be aiming or how many clicks to use on your adjustable rail.
What about use as a sniper?
You have the system that gives you feed from a remote camera. Usually the camera can be mounted on the marker, but you can remote the camera to actually look at your position while you lay hidden. Without picking up your head you can get a wider view of the area around you (actual snipers can tell me this is a stupid idea and won't work practically)
I could see it going further than that even: relay this information back to a base station.
Commander has a live feed from your mask and marker
GPS location
Your status (alive or dead)
Encrypted communications
Live overview of the map with player locations (why not an open source Surface project?)
Now, if everyone were equipped with these devices (I mean why not?). Observers would be able to view action from both sides as you might view a first person shooter game. Map overviews, player perspectives.
Calculations might even be done to determine who hit who during the match (shooting and hit player locations, shot fired etc, yes this is flawed)
A full rehash of the action post game would be possible.
So what kind of hardware would this really take?
Certain portions are trickier than others.
For instance: encrypted coms, GPS, relay or position data, video. That's the easy part. Get yourself an android phone and start coding. Make the phone the center of this whole universe.
The difficult parts are the creation of the HMD itself (must receive an relay display data to the phone. No thinking of it's own)
Camera interface to the phone (mask and marker mounted)
Other interfaces (wind, distance instruments to phone)
And then the power than would be required for each (a small item)
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Post by Allu on Apr 10, 2011 13:48:18 GMT -5
Not to sound negative or discouraging, (I'm ecstatic about the applications) but here are some, how should I put it, challenges.
The accuracy of the gps device in wooded terrain, I'd guess approximately 10m in good conditions but what about on smaller fields, is it tactically enough (Hitman whats your teams experience?)
Then the eternal map problem, I think that the live overlay shouldn't pose to much of a problem but the material available might, So indeed one wold want to maybe develop a system and symbology for paintball map drawing (there might be systems out there).
I'v also been toying with the idea of a projected reticle on a HUD inside the mask, this would be accomplished a bit like the app layers, but i believe it might require more sensitive gyros and accelerometers and inclinometers mounted on the marker, I got the idea after seeing a guy who used layers to superimpose a virtual 3d model made by the planning department and virtually showcase it on location through his i-phone.
I think the video analysis for windage might indeed be a tricky one, but if one could implement the system on multiple players, say the whole team, one might be able to have a program calculate a real time wind model based on several measuring stations, then again, the wind measuring might be inaccurate mounted on an operator if your prone most of the time and the altitude from a gps device isn't that useful in determining that, maybe some external sensors deployed at the field, however I think it might be easier to call the wind manually since we'r starting to talk about a complete climate analysis system, then again, why not.
For the hardware, a cpu of some kind(smartphone?), battery, radio modem/data link via mobile broadband?, camera with real time video output, regarding the processing of multiple video feeds i think you would need some heavier processing capacity, and it would also be heavy for the data link.
The question is if your looking at the creation of a complete command IT system similar to what the US military uses (don't know how advanced the systems that they use on the field today actually is, but the stuff in the documentaries I'v seen is quite impressive), or if one would try to make a sniperteam specific relatively standalone platform that adds to the capabilities of the operator. One important thing to remember is what some systems in fighter planes have incorporated, they only show the most relevant and mission specific data to the pilot, since some(I don't know which) studies have shown that normal warnings and an excess of data just takes the pilots focus out of the fight. What I'm getting at is that the experiance and training can't really be replaced by advanced gear, however to a trained operator these devices can boost the performance. Just take night vision or thermal optics, they put a whole new dimension to night warfare.
And lastly, anyone who has tips on the durability of such gear, waterproofing, how to mount cables going from weapons system to operator and so on.
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Post by mayhem on Apr 10, 2011 14:44:53 GMT -5
Certainly not discouraging. Criticism and debate are always welcome.
So here are my thoughts on a couple of points you've raised (which were excellent ones)
-GPS accuracy. Totally agree with this. What about relative distance between device operators. If you can figure one of those operators is stationary (Command) then perhaps they can be overlayed on a map.
-Availability of maps. I've picked up a Kinect the other day and I've been fooling around with the OpenKinect project. Pretty amazing stuff. I've already used it to maps a few rooms in my house. There are obvious difficulties to overcome with outdoor use (which can be done) but already someone has created a project to patch together these renderings into a single continuous map. All that would be needed is early access to the field to conduct a mapping mission. If that's not available perhaps something loftier could be worked out with reconnaissance teams wherein they did the mapping (yes, this is kind of ridiculous, but could be done).
-In regards to hardware. New phones on the market have a CPU of around 1.2ghz. That's not a laptop, but in regards to CPU it's pretty damn close I think. More the issue is the memory but new things are happening with these devices all the time. If the tech isn't there yet, it's going to be soon.
-Battery is of course an issue. But if I can wear a lithium ion power pack about the size of a pod on my vest I might be able to get away with a good amount of juice.
-Yes I do see possible "augmented reality" features coming into play. It would be pretty cool to actually have something telling you the direction of the flag or even reported enemy combatants.
-No real replies in regard to windage and all. It's something to think about.
I'm sure you're right, several obstacles to overcome here. But it's always fun to discuss.
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Post by Allu on Apr 10, 2011 16:20:10 GMT -5
Ah, augmented reality, that was the expression i couldn't remember On another note, I couldn't agree more, I'll definitely keep my eyes and ears open and get back here if I get hold of or try some working solutions, who knows, maybe this is the spark that revolutionizes goggle systems I'll have to look into if some kind of d-gps application is possible with two "normal gps receivers" if one is stationary, it seems vaguely familiar |
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Post by mayhem on Apr 11, 2011 12:30:44 GMT -5
Some additional thoughts:
Unless someone else has some ideas, I think you're right, the wind factor is kind of at a loss here.
In regards to training. I would imagine the HMD to be customizable. Certain roles/certain players are going to want some data and not others. Why not configure what actually gets displayed, perhaps allow for buttons that allow swapping views on the field.
On the waterproofing aspect. They make underwater enclosures for cameras, the same is possible (as far as I know) for phones and all. The system I'm working on houses everything in a pod which of course works out well in my vest.
Connections to the mask (for HMD) and marker (for cameras and/or sensors) is ideally wireless. In my current setup my marker camera (which does include infra-red and night vision) connects via wireless (open, though enclosed is preferred) to my pod pack where it's recorded and related to a wired HMD.
Hardware like the arduino board (or something lighter weight) would make for a wireless connection there too. Add a power pack that perhaps resided on the rear strap of the mask or helmet and (also powers the POV camera) and you've got something.
If the HMD is inside of the mask it's safe from most condensation with the exception of your own breathing and perhaps heavy rain. But if these guys are doing it with a ski mask that issue is obviously already solved. I would say the power issue is also already solved here, but this HMD would be transmitting rather than processing itself (who knows, could be less power use there).
The camera I use for my marker btw is a exterior home surveillance camera btw. It's not a great resolution by and means and the night vision is just about worthless really. But it was for a fun prototype anyway. I modded it to run off a 9v battery and mounted to the front grip with RAM mounts. The enclosure is nice and sturdy (weatherproof) but on top of that I picked up a scope blizzard cap (see through) to help with any direct paint hits.
An added benefit of the mount used is that I can angle the camera back toward myself for a different perspective or even at the barrel of the marker. It would be cool to at some point get a camera that shot a high enough speed to capture the breach exit.
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Post by ryuakira on Apr 11, 2011 17:14:24 GMT -5
Idk about all this. Seems like this would be more useful at the CTD events then at your local field. I cant see spending the kind of money theyre gona want for these on a pair of goggle. The version for paintball is gonna be alot more most likly. these things are awsome but not really need imo.
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Post by Allu on Apr 11, 2011 17:41:15 GMT -5
Well all is relative. Needed? Perhaps not, desirable? More so. |
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Post by mayhem on Apr 11, 2011 19:10:05 GMT -5
Absolutely not a need for any game. But I would also argue that a ghillie, vest, camo and semi auto markers are a requirement either  Assuming this was something actually real and acquirable, which it's not, I think of it as another item on the field that provides an advantage. This forum group in particular is about gaining advantages by tweaking every aspect of their gear. As the same time I would especially like to debate the merits. Like I said, I'm not a real sniper. Someone with more experience could say that this is less an advantage and more a hindrance, as Allu noted pertaining to fighter pilot systems. In regards to the price. The goggle as part of the original post are indeed incredibly expensive and you're totally correct in assuming that a production version of the system we're talking about here would come as an immense, probably prohibitive, cost. Seems to me that the only way to really go about it to "open source" the project then. Many of us probably already have a smart phone. The question as to if those owner would also like to carry that expensive piece of equipment onto the field is a different question. So it comes down to the HMD itself, the camera system and the software to make the connection. If that was something that we could construct ourselves than perhaps the cost is much lower and approachable. |
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