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Post by trinity on Feb 28, 2013 22:57:20 GMT -5
I am curious why you think that these gelatin rounds will be any different than regular paintballs. Although most of the problems with the gelatin should not affect these rounds like regular paintballs and they should be able to break on target better thank the polystyrene. If they swell, it won't make much difference since the gelatin isn't making the seal on the barrel and if there is a dimple or issue with a seam, it appears you could probably rotate the paintball inside the nose of the round. I am glad that there will be a selection of color now, that grey/white fill is very hard to see, especially since there's only half of what a normal ball has.
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Post by DJmatt123 on Feb 28, 2013 23:22:56 GMT -5
They do not touch the barrel so if they swell or shrink due to humidity or temp, it will not affect the fit to the barrel and change consistency. Also the finned housing will be the main determining factor in straight, stabilized flight instead of a round ball with dimples. Another problem with regular paintballs that shouldn't be with these is the seam on them, it looks like you could go thru each one and rotate the ball so the seams are all consistent even. They won't be as waterproof as regular FS's, but I don't see them causing problems inside the fin like regular paintballs have.
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Post by trinity on Mar 1, 2013 1:30:22 GMT -5
They do not touch the barrel so if they swell or shrink due to humidity or temp, it will not affect the fit to the barrel and change consistency. Also the finned housing will be the main determining factor in straight, stabilized flight instead of a round ball with dimples. Another problem with regular paintballs that shouldn't be with these is the seam on them, it looks like you could go thru each one and rotate the ball so the seams are all consistent even. They won't be as waterproof as regular FS's, but I don't see them causing problems inside the fin like regular paintballs have. So, you agree that .50 gelatin paintballs will be subject to exactly the same kind of humidity and fragility issues that ruin regular paintballs, but you feel that because it is the ballistic skirt that actually touches the barrel that the deterioration of the shell of the paint won't impact accuracy. I think we will have to agree to disagree. Certainly the ballistic skirt is important, but that's not the end of the analysis. There is a never-ending list of threads on this forum where posters talk about the shape and weight of first strikes variations and the potential that even the smallest of those things could have on accuracy. It really isn't correct to say that paintballs aren't as waterproof as first strikes. Polystyrene is water resistant. Paintballs are not. In fact, it's the opposite. Paintballs swell because the gelatin shell and the fill absorb water, they don't resist it. How much does that change the weight and shape of the projectile? Who knows? When paintballs dimple, it's been my experience that generally the whole shell has lost much of its integrity. The dimple is just the worst part of it. Even the shape of the ball changes a bit. As for polystyrene, I have some first strikes that are over six months old that I have been recently using to zero a new pistol sight. No special care. No rotation. They were simply stored nose down in their tubes for all that time and there is no degradation in them whatsoever. In fact, early on I tested first strikes for Tiberius by leaving them out in the rain for long periods of time. The rounds seem to have been unaffected. You talk about being able to rotate the round so that the seam can be eliminated and that doing so is a factor that could potentially improve the accuracy of the round, yet you also say that if the ball is dimpled that it won't affect accuracy because it doesn't touch the barrel. I think there is an inherent conflict in that logic. How about those rounds under pressure in your mags? After all, maybe the second or third round down in that mag in your vest has dimpled in the high humidity or because the field owner didn't take steps to store the paint correctly (which is a constant problem). Even rotating the round won't fix the accuracy problem because the dimple isn't a fixed defect in the shell. After you rotate it, the dimple will just reform at that point where it presses up against the round above it in the mag. There are enough variables with first strikes. I am happy to leave gelatin behind. How about the affect of the dimpling on the ball contents? We all know that if you don't store first strikes nose down that there seems to be an accuracy correlation. I would venture a guess and say that that is because if first strikes are not stored in that manner the paint isn't all in the nose of the round. What happens to the paint inside the .50 caliber paintball on these rounds when the skin dimples. Even if you rotate the ball to put the dimple down, the contents inside have been moved around because the shell has caved in a bit in one spot. Will the rotation of the round itself be impacted by a lopsided (dimpled) paintball once it leaves the barrel and starts to really rotate? Who knows. DJMatt, I respect all the stuff you're doing with your Dye Dam, but as far as the future of these new rounds go, I am not optimistic. Maybe, in the end, Scarab Arms will prove me wrong and it rounds will be just as accurate as first strikes, albeit more fragile. Even under those circumstances I won't move to the gelatin shells just to save a few pennies per round. A significant increase in accuracy is the only factor that would cause me to change ammo. In the meanwhile, no one has posted any reviews on these rounds and there are lots and lots of questions about how they will work. I am content to wait and see if they pan out.
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Post by DJmatt123 on Mar 1, 2013 1:59:51 GMT -5
I completely agree that until they come out, everything is up in the air on how they will perform. I think a lot will depend on the type/brand paintball they use. I have some Nelson Anarchy that is over 2 years old that is still in good condition and not dimpled, I also have some other paint that every ball is trash after a month of sitting around.
As for the seam, I mean that they can all be rotated to be positioned the same to try and keep all the rounds as uniform as possible. If there is a dimple on the face, the ball could be rotated 180 degrees and hopefully will be undimpled on that side. As for mags, the tiberius mags will probably have problems with the retainer pin that the gelatin presses into, but on the DAM mags, once the round is in the mag there should be no pressure on that part of the round to cause any dimples, all the pressure will be on the skirt.
I know that storing the FS's nose down is best, however at least once loaded into mags, most mag pouches seem to orientate them so that they are sitting sideways allowing the fill to settle off balance again in a short time it would seem. With the DAM mags, even if I were to use a horizontal mag pouch, half of the rounds would still be facing up and all the paint would settle to the bottom of the round.
I think that in a perfect world, Scarab's Gen 1 rounds would of been best and I have a lot of doubts with the one's they are releasing but I'm just trying to throw out some observations and theories and hoping that they have good results once they actually come out. Maybe they could have PCP make 50 cal polystyrene balls like their 68 cals instead of using regualar 50 cal pbs, of course then they would probably be .10 more than FS's.....lol.
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Post by chicago on May 3, 2013 15:19:37 GMT -5
Believe it or not, I kept put off installing fixxer's triggers til the end. I've got two more to install but they will all look the same from here on out! First remember, I'm not a photographer and I'm trying to finish my porjects before all the big games: The special ordered trigger for my CCM SR1, the Silent Ghost: Next, my new MP7 project, the Dark Knight: Finally, the mod I made to the Dark Knight so I can adjust velocity without taking her apart (the bottom, larger hole):
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nessy
Member
I'm watching you from afar. Don't worry, though. I'm not one of those creepy stalker types. :D
Posts: 132
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Post by nessy on May 8, 2013 20:10:21 GMT -5
Chicago or Trinity. Do either of you plan on doing an accuracy review with pictures, kind of like the ones I have done with my Para Pro? I think we would all like to see how well the SR-1 shoots at different ranges. I have sent Bill at CCM an email expressing interest in getting on the list for the next batch of rifles he comes out with, and I keep hearing about how well and consistent the rifle shoots, but I think we would all like to see your results. A picture is worth a thousand words, after all. And dont worry, once I get my SR rifle (since I dont know what number the next rifle will be. lol) I will be doing head to head to head comparisons with the SAR 12, the Para Pro, and the SR so everyone can see which rifle truly is king in terms of accuracy and range. ^__^
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DSA
Member
Posts: 19
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Post by DSA on May 8, 2013 22:45:30 GMT -5
Damn nice triggers Chicago, damn nice.
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Post by chicago on May 9, 2013 10:31:05 GMT -5
Yes, but with LL6 coming up and all my project running behind. Don't expect anything before late May!
I've even sized the rounds for these accuracy tests!
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Post by chicago on May 9, 2013 12:22:46 GMT -5
I need to add soemthing: VoodooAddict and I did have the CCM SR1, the silent ghost; and, the Tiberius T9.1, Silent angel out. It wasn't what I'd call totally scientific. It's the first time we really fired them since last year with a new box (sorry didn't even count it or sort the 100 ct box First Strikes - From Rockstar). I really wanted to see if we couyld use these at LL6 next weekend. Finally got to use the 8cc HPA tank again (got it filled over at Fox River games on Friday). And my big HPA bottle with remote for the T9.1. The line on the CCM leaked a little (might switch back to the old autmag hard line before Living Legends), but, other than that even with removing things and adding and changing things it was dead on when the Leupold range finder said 30 yards and when we backed up to 45 yards and then 150 feet. Here's all I and voodoo noticed, even with a longer riffled hammerhead barrel, the shots seemed to have a wider pattern. Remember we didn't measure and we were just checking the markers out. But, it sure seemed that the T9.1 at the same distance still held the pattern to like 3 inches. We atrribute part of that variance (increase in pattern) to the the fact that my Ultra perfect and tuned T9.1 doesn't jump around. Yes, we had a chorno out there too. CCM SR1 prototype jumps from 283 to 272 fps (not bad, but does cause pattern at extremely long distance to open up up and down - but pretty much the windage stays dead on.) That small variance, btw, is good enough for VoodooAddict. If I'm not taking it to LL6 he is! And, I told him that was fine. I'd be his wingman and cover him with the T9.1! So, at LL6 if you see what looks like Chicago's SR1 , the Silent Ghost, and has his name, Chicago on the right side, then that my fabulous Silent Ghost! But, it's VooddooAddict carrying it. Ane, when you fell the firtst strike hitting you, that's my Silent Angel! BTW, a new MilSig black silencer is now on on the end of the Silent Ghost; And, I'm using that weird Half FLASC half; Lapco Shark fin for a silencer on my silent angel - she is more quiet that the normal FLASC and the MilSig; but, the other Milsigs are almost as quiet if not quieter than the old FLASCs right of the box and the MilSigs didn't seem to impact accuracy! oh, and you can get a Milsig v2 silencer for half the price if a FLASC! Two things to remember: by the time you add a double port flasc extendedrif you can find them and the FLASC to tib/Lapco.Hammerhead thread, you've spent roughly the same amount of money! First, Silent Angel, original FLASC, silent: Second, Silent Angel, with modified FLASC and the Lapco extension inside (you still need a FLASC adapter). But, it is now on the order of the sound of real silencer. Out shines anything, I've just got to learn to love that extremely long look up front! VoodooAddict doesn't like the look; but admits its the quietiest thing he's ever heard! third, the original pix of the FLASC on the Silent Ghost: fourth, imagine this (only in black) on the end of the Silent Ghost. Sorry, black milsig came in that morning and threw it rigth on marker. It's a good inch shorter than the FLASC so I think it looks incredible and it's much, much lighter than the flasc too!: Here's what the milsig in tan looks like on my Dark Knight who's going with me whereever I go!: Will get you a pix of the ghost in black soon!
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Post by ruraldawgs on May 9, 2013 19:06:40 GMT -5
So does the Milsig fit right on a Lapco Barrel (683 FS Riffled) ?
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Post by chicago on May 10, 2013 9:16:40 GMT -5
No, MilSig fits a FLASC. You need an adapter to go from Milsig or FLASC to Tiberius/Lapco or Hammerhead. Screwing a FLASC extender into a MilSig works but, you still need an adapter to get to any barrels from the States. I think it has something to do with Imperial or Metric systems!
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Post by chicago on May 11, 2013 18:46:38 GMT -5
As promised finally got some pix. Must say, " not as much bling; but, twice the silent string!" First, the new Milsig silencer look for my CCM SR1: Second, you can see the felt (shipped inside with the silencer) and the FLASC adapter! The business end (what you don't see is the extension inside the Milsig holding the unruly - bumpy felt - in place; and the 16 inch riffled hammerhead that sets behind it). Making the barrel on that gun, 21 inches long!:
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Post by Allu on May 12, 2013 6:03:37 GMT -5
I am looking for words to describe what i think about these pics... Ah found it. Awesome!!!
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